Dissolving Invite?

[Editcross]

What is everyone's thoughts on the lack of teams in CAL for DoD:S? I recently just went through Open/Main/Invite to look at all the teams and such, and was surpised when I counted ~70 teams in CAL for DoD:S alone. With such a lackluster amount of teams present in CAL, I would like to propose a discussion for the dissolving of Invite. We could take the number of teams in Main now and apply that to next season, and move down anyone not performing so well to Open. So we'd just have two divisions, main and open.

Is this a good or bad idea? Why?

What affect would this have on the community?

How many teams should be left in Main?

Which teams would be left in Main, and who would/should be moved down?

What criteria should be used to determine said move downs/ups?

If this is idea is not liked, then how would we as a community, help promote competitive play?


-Dane






There SeaN, that's one.

[Revy]

I think iit could work. I mean there already is a big gap in skill level in CAL as it is. There are teams in Main like NYC Bravo and Notik, that aren't doing so great and should be moved down to Open. There there are teams in Open that could be good contenders in Main but I don't think they can quite go up against the teams that are currently in Invite but those teams keep breaking up every second. The whole breaking up and reforming is kinda hurting the community big time.

To determine move ups I think it should be all about capouts. They should look into activity of the team. Like people leaving and joining the roster. If it seems like the team isn't a set steady team then they shouldn't get moved up.

I don't know, my opinion probably doesn't matter though since I'm CAL-O for life, but I just think we need to stop breaking up and making up new teams, that's hurting the community a lot causing the New O teams to leave cause they are getting rolled and then Invite teams are getting bored cause the competition seems like they either lose by a lot or win by a lot.

[J IS FOR JOSH]

You're biased towards Dane's e-pinion :p

I joke, whatever needs to be done needs to be done to invite. Dissolving it seems to be the only viable choice as long as you don't get kids pissing about not being CAL-I, being too good for the game, CAL-Corrupt and quit or something

[twirk]

Is this a good or bad idea? In my opinion, it's a bad idea. If anything, more teams need to be moved UP in divisions. With more competition in ALL divisions, certain teams wont be pin-pointed to win or lose each and every season. For instance, take Nexus/pub*. Since the start we've been planted as a "weak link" in the upper division. Well in the past couple of seasons we've been making a few waves and surprising a couple teams here and there. If more of the upper level main teams were pushed into invite, perhaps we wouldn't be set to be dropped by the Skulls and the Pures and Complexitys of the gaming world. Same applies for open to main. If the upper level open teams were bumped into main, sure they may not become instant gratification, but that would allow for better competition overall in ALL THREE divisions. Perhaps more teams would come along into open if they knew there wasn't a powerhouse team coming back from a hiatus just waiting to destroy all.

What affect would this have on the community? Well, in theory, my proposition would make the community grow. With your proposal of combining divisions, you're looking to place AMAZING teams, with respect to their skill levels, with teams who are average in main and average and totally bad in open.

Which teams would be left in Main, and who would/should be moved down? With my proposal, move up all teams who make playoffs this season in Main to Invite. Enervate, RoM, FueL... I know I'm forgetting quite a few who could compete in invite. Perhaps not with every team in invite, but with the majority from week to week.

What criteria should be used to determine said move downs/ups? All of this will fall on deaf ears when it comes to CAL anyway, but like I stated above. Those who make playoffs should be placed in the division above them. Teams who aren't fairing so well this season.. ie- notik, should have the choice on whether or not they wish to stay in their division or be dropped to a lower division.

If this is idea is not liked, then how would we as a community, help promote competitive play? My 2 cents written in full above. Not bad for my first post on the DoDS Hub, eh?


HAI DANE!

[BANKS]

it is true invite has dissolved...

[pzykotic]

Is this a good or bad idea? Why?

It is neither, it is a concept

What affect would this have on the community?

None. The people in invite would just go play in DPA and never play matches.

How many teams should be left in Main?

an even number; that way there can be matches scheduled each week

Which teams would be left in Main, and who would/should be moved down?

don't know/don't care

What criteria should be used to determine said move downs/ups?

activity level. maturity. fortean zoology.

If this is idea is not liked, then how would we as a community, help promote competitive play?

it's not up to us, it's up to CAL. they change the game play in their organization the way they want.

[Entari]

I don't know, my opinion probably doesn't matter though since I'm CAL-O for life, but I just think we need to stop breaking up and making up new teams, that's hurting the community a lot causing the New O teams to leave cause they are getting rolled and then Invite teams are getting bored cause the competition seems like they either lose by a lot or win by a lot.

See thats why we have human presence in cal. Because they should beable to use their brain and say hmmmm this team is above the skill level of this division lets move them up. Though this never happens it makes you wonder why cal isnt just automated. Seriously teams will break up all the time. Alot of times it has to do with chemestry. If its not working its not working and you need to try something else. But it should be the admins job to say hey we are really fucking the open teams trying hard to good in open lets not fuck them.

But thats asking too much i think. So lets just move down the invite teams into a division that probobly wont beable to keep up, and then you have the same problem as new invite players forming teams in open.

[GRAND THEFT WALRUS]

gotta wait till after socal LAN

[MediaMisfit]

I agree a lot with what twirk said about the issues on dissolving invite and what revy said about how leagues should judge a teams ability to move up.

"The whole breaking up and reforming is kinda hurting the community big time." Especially when a bunch of M straglers join up just to obliterate new people trying to get into O.

[Klown]

.....What criteria should be used to determine said move downs/ups? All of this will fall on deaf ears when it comes to CAL anyway, but like I stated above. Those who make playoffs should be placed in the division above them. Teams who aren't fairing so well this season.. ie- notik, should have the choice on whether or not they wish to stay in their division or be dropped to a lower division.

Yes tell that to the teams that got moved up from open to main/invite. Really you guys need to stop looking at CAL may of handled things before to how they are actually handling things now.

See thats why we have human presence in cal. Because they should beable to use their brain and say hmmmm this team is above the skill level of this division lets move them up. Though this never happens it makes you wonder why cal isnt just automated. Seriously teams will break up all the time. Alot of times it has to do with chemestry. If its not working its not working and you need to try something else. But it should be the admins job to say hey we are really fucking the open teams trying hard to good in open lets not fuck them.

But thats asking too much i think. So lets just move down the invite teams into a division that probobly wont beable to keep up, and then you have the same problem as new invite players forming teams in open.

This is a prime example of someone who can't get over past things CAL done to actually try and help improve CAL.

You people have had a lot of chances to interact with how CAL does some things but never really took advantage of them... Hell I may have something planned that "could" help for next season as long as you guys can actually get over past things CAL done and look forward to helping and improving it.

[pzykotic]

Yes tell that to the teams that got moved up from open to main/invite. Really you guys need to stop looking at CAL may of handled things before to how they are actually handling things now.



This is a prime example of someone who can't get over past things CAL done to actually try and help improve CAL.

You people have had a lot of chances to interact with how CAL does some things but never really took advantage of them... Hell I may have something planned that "could" help for next season as long as you guys can actually get over past things CAL done and look forward to helping and improving it.

A couple of points ...

CAL Game Managers don't need to be posting on public forums; especially on decisions like this it makes the administrators below him look wishy-washy and leaves too many things open to speculation.
A person who is a CAL administrator, generally should hide himself from the community he posts in, not embrace it; administrators have agendas regardless of whether you think they do or not and pushing an agenda using the Internet is bad whether you're conscious of doing it or not.
The invite division WAS going to be dissolved regardless of whether or not you want to admit that factoid. The only reason it's NOT is because Daniel said it was not a good idea. Amazing how I know stuff like this eh?


I'm done with this thread though :)

[Pat!]

I am glad you are done because you are no longer a cal admin for a reason, stupidity.

Klown is fucking awesome, so david shut the fuck up.

[pzykotic]

I am glad you are done because you are no longer a cal admin for a reason, stupidity.

Klown is fucking awesome, so david shut the fuck up.

LOLUMAD?

[Ez]

Just my opinion, from a CAL-O player, nothing more nothing less


Is this a good or bad idea? Why? - I think some teams in open and main should be moved up to help spread out the skill level in each division, make it more competitive for maybe the lower teams in that division. There are certain teams in O right now who could compete in M and I think do fairly well, at least better than some of the lower M teams.

What affect would this have on the community? - More even competition in the divisions.

How many teams should be left in Main? - Maybe about the same as of right now, move some up to I, move some down to O, and move some upper O to M to see how they fair.

Which teams would be left in Main, and who would/should be moved down? - Up: ENE and rebels, down: maybe NYC and notik.

What criteria should be used to determine said move downs/ups? - Activity and performance

If this is idea is not liked, then how would we as a community, help promote competitive play? - I like the ideas, I think we need to try to keep the skill level close enough in each division so no team just runs away with it, which discourages newer teams, or teams who won't stick together.

[Pat!]

A couple of points ...

I'm done with this thread though :)

yeah i know you weren't done and you replied rather quickly for a thursday night minutes after i posted lol

lolumad is an overused expresion try, roflupissed? something new :D

tbh i'm not angry i just think you need to open your mind and stop thinking your always right

so now i ask you

are you done with this thread now?

[true.dat]

leave it the way it is.

[Entari]

Yes tell that to the teams that got moved up from open to main/invite. Really you guys need to stop looking at CAL may of handled things before to how they are actually handling things now.



This is a prime example of someone who can't get over past things CAL done to actually try and help improve CAL.

You people have had a lot of chances to interact with how CAL does some things but never really took advantage of them... Hell I may have something planned that "could" help for next season as long as you guys can actually get over past things CAL done and look forward to helping and improving it.

If by past you mean a few weeks ago then yes.

[Pat!]

If we need to fix the way the leagues are set up we need to do it together and not have it made up by an outside party. The community should come together and think about everyone. We can keep things the way they are but if say Invite is gone, maybe it is for the best if we decide it. I won't care as long as I can play this game and have fun. CAL, TPG, DPA, and other leagues have to look at the people and ask the community, would you like this idea or that? Only way to get a majority to be happy and keep things flowing.

[pzykotic]

We have always had an unstated policy in CAL that an invite division must contain at least twelve "ACTIVE" teams to come into existence and to stay an established division; if DODS-invite fails to meet that standard it should be abolished and the teams moved down the division below it.

As far as "community" goes, CAL is on it's own - DPA is barely a league and TPG is run by two people plus some guy who works for the EPA that funds it along with his racing car game. CAL sets standards and precedents and everyone else should follow them - if they don't want to they can go on their own and fall like TPG always has been by being it's "rebel without a cause" league.

[Klown]

A couple of points ...
CAL Game Managers don't need to be posting on public forums; especially on decisions like this it makes the administrators below him look wishy-washy and leaves too many things open to speculation.
A person who is a CAL administrator, generally should hide himself from the community he posts in, not embrace it; administrators have agendas regardless of whether you think they do or not and pushing an agenda using the Internet is bad whether you're conscious of doing it or not.
The invite division WAS going to be dissolved regardless of whether or not you want to admit that factoid. The only reason it's NOT is because Daniel said it was not a good idea. Amazing how I know stuff like this eh?I'm done with this thread though :)


lol, Really all your "bullets of information" above are just plain stupid.. I mean seriously. Let me shed a little knowledge on you cause it seems you need it.

A GM should be one of the main people posting on a forum. It shows he is active with the community and actually follows it. It shows that when decisions are made he knows what he is doing and what the community wants cause he is an active member in. As far as making the admins below me "wishy-washy" really I have no clue what you are talking about. All the admins are active members of the game and community and also post. They do a hell of a job as admins and really I couldn't see anyone else I would rather have as admins.
Why should a CAL admin hide themselves from the community it only separates them from it. And as far as admins having their own agenda, Every player that plays a game would have their own agenda. What makes a good admin though is someone who sets aside their own "agenda" and does what is best for the game.
As far as you "knowing" what was going to happen with the invite division lol.
Ohh yea and the MOST important bit of knowledge you can have : If I post something on here under the name "KLOWN" it comes from me as a player not a CAL admin. When I post something as a CAL admin you will know it.

[pzykotic]

I look forward to seeing separation of admin/player.

[Editcross]

Anyone elseeeee?

[ChadSexington]

Ban everyone in invite - no one can be that good, so they must be hacking (I love pub logic)

Problem solved.

[garmonbozia]

Whatever you do, teams will be pissed.

Dissolve Invite and you'll have 4 teams rolling all the Main-level teams.

Keep Invite but move up more Main teams and the same thing will happen, but they'll be labled "Invite".

Both ideas suck, imo.

I'd much rather have a 6-8 team Invite, comprised of teams that can actually compete with each other... Then just have all 6 or 8 teams play out the season for seeding in the playoffs and let it roll.

[Editcross]

The number 70 is false.

For better research results, go through the Results page for each divison. You'll find that the amount of active teams is much lower and the amount of FF wins is much higher then you think.

For Open this last week there were 23 matches scheduled. 7 were FF wins and 3 were never played, giving you 13 teams that aren't active.

Main also had 2 teams picking up FF wins.

The game needs more dedicated teams, changing around division names isn't going to help you get that.

^^^Bennett posted this on GF

So shall we just make two large divisions? Main for the Invite/Main teams and an Open for everyone else? Or are you guys scared of those big bad Invite players? I'd theorize that if I was stuck in a division with 16 or so teams, and there was the potential to get roflstomped by a former Invite team, I'd practice my tush off and put up a good fight. Don't be so afraid to lose, because it will happen at some point. Strive to get better as a team, as a player, and take the time to scrim.

[garmonbozia]

Coming from the guy we had to pull kicking and screaming off of Dota and WoW all the time just to get a scrim...

[Editcross]

Well DotA and WoW were more interesting to me than DoD:S at that moment. I'd scrim now if you'd like. :)

[garmonbozia]

I don't care if you scrim anymore, team killer.

[AchilLEs]

it is a bad idea. they did it for 1.3 and it didn't work and at the end CAL dropped 1.3 completely. I understand the numbers of teams have dropped but if you take off invite, the invite teams don't feel the need to really "try" to win another Main title as most of them won a main title already and the same with teams in main. Why would they try to win the main title? so they could stay in main again? It won't be challenging to anyone. In addition moving down the main teams to open will cause the newer teams to simply quit, seeing there is absolutely no chance for them to get any positive experience. I think the community should simply wait until the newegg lan, because that lan would put this game on the map. It is largest lan this community has ever seen. Plus, there are more sponsors will be looking to put their names on top teams of DODS. This will create a great opportunities for new people to create new teams and the community will glow. I think we should wait on the downsizing the divisions and if we do downsize the divisions, instead of one match a week increase it to twice a week but on different days i.e. weds & sundays.

[Pat!]

What Achilles says is smart, we should just wait. Both ideas do seem to pose the same result, unhappiness and tons of teams quitting. Let us just play the way it is and see how it goes. When the time comes, we can make a decision.

[garmonbozia]

See? I was right.

[Editcross]

I didn't kill the team.

And this discussion can keep going.

[true.dat]

I agree with what achilles said

[garmonbozia]

I didn't kill the team.

And this discussion can keep going.


Yeah you pretty much did pal.

[Switch]

yeah just wait till the newegg LAN, the turnout looks pretty darn good for the first few weeks(idk how long its been going but just a guess) after the LAN is over, whatever the outcome is we should act on it pretty much. for now its fine.

[J IS FOR JOSH]

Main also had 2 teams picking up FF wins.

If you're counting the TCB v itf match, its not an FF, there's some horrendous mix up of ITF reporting a forfeit win 'accidentally' at least 24 hours ahead of time when both teams had talked and set up a time.

Yeah you pretty much did pal.

Another thread, another time, or just in PM's

[Editcross]

Epitome and RoM both pulled FF's.

He's just being silly.

[garmonbozia]

Another thread

Thine will be done